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originally this month , at the Slush technical school league in Helsinki , this editor in chief had the opportunity to sit down with Sanna Marin , the popular former prize minister of Finland who became known internationally forsocializing with friend , but whose accomplishments in post are far more important , including successfully pushing Finland to join NATO to better protect the country from its neighbour Russia after its encroachment of Ukraine .
Marin , who choose out of Finnish politics in September , works today at the Tony Blair Institute as a strategical counsel ; she is also working on a startup with one of her longtimepolitical advisors . Still , ground on the enraptured bunch that Marin drew during our conversation at Slush , it ’s easy to conceive of her eventual comeback to the political arena .
She did n’t harness it out during our sit - down . However , we spend much more time talk about what Russia ’s aggression means for the rest of the public , why woman should more pronto believe themselves in positions of power , and the promises and peril of AI — and what lawmakers should do about it . Here are excerpts from that chat , edited lightly for length and clarity .
In later 2019 , you took on a occupation that ’s typically the culmination of a long career in public service and you take it on passably early [ at old age 34 ] . What was it comparable to be thrust into that spatial relation ?
Well , of course , when you take that sort of military position or job , you ’re never in full prepared . When you do the oeuvre , then you read what the job is , so it ’s a leap of faith . In Finland , we ’ve had a few female choice ministers , but if we look globally , the situation is n’t very good . We have 193 country in the UN and only 13 of them are led by women , so the world is n’t very adequate [ when it comes to ] leading and it never has been . I only hope that we will see more female leadership in the world in the time to come .
We ’re sitting here in front of a very big audience of tech founders who are essay to knock down wall and also shatter trash ceilings . What ’s your advice to them ?
My independent advice is to believe yourself . Believe in yourself . If you ’re in a stead where you are able-bodied to take a leading position , then think , ‘ perhaps I am open . peradventure I can do this . ’ particularly women , many time they interrogate themselves . Are they ready for that job ? Are they undecomposed enough ? Can they do everything utterly ? Man do n’t conceive like that . They recall that ‘ Yeah , I ’m better . I ’m the good one for the business . ’ I recall women also need that attitude and they postulate the support and to be encourage to take risks and leadership positions , because women are expert leaders . And if you ’re at that point where you could take that position , it ’s because you are good and you are up to . So go for it .
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You went through a lot as autopsy . Soon after you were elect , COVID took hold of the world . Last year , Russia invade Ukraine . You have a very long and complicated relationship with Russia . You ’ve mother a very tenacious perimeter with Russia . Can you take us back to that day when you learn the news [ of the intrusion ] and what was go through your mind ?
I can remember vividly , like it was yesterday , because we fuck by then that it was probable that Russia would assail Ukraine . During that [ preceding ] summer , almost half year in the beginning and during that whole fall , Russia , for case , slowed get-up-and-go run to Europe to diminish different countries ’ storage , and thus , Russia could utilise vim as a artillery against Europe afterward on . Russia also put many scout group near the Ukrainian border , saying it was a practice and they would n’t snipe . Now we know that was a prevarication . Many leaders were in impinging with Putin , trying to ascertain diplomatic , peaceable path out of the billet before the full attack started , and he rest to everyone . Now , we have to learn from that . I have say on many stage that westerly countries , democratic country everywhere globally , should stop being naïve . We should waken up to authoritarian authorities and [ recognize that ’s how ] they function and see the humanity and their system of logic is very dissimilar from the democratic commonwealth . We thought in Russia ’s showcase that because we have close economic and business link with Russia that those link could fix ataraxis because it would be so costly and so unintelligent to start a warfare . Because it is dazed . It ’s illogical , from our linear perspective . But authoritarian country do n’t imagine like that . So it did n’t foreclose anything .
You ’ve talked before of people ’s naivete when it comes to share with authoritarian authorities , let in as it relates to tech , where you believe that autonomy is also important . I ’ve listen you express concern about Europe ’s unsubtle trust on chips from China , for example . How would you rate Finland ’s onward motion on this front ?
Finland is doing quite well compared to many other state . . . When we look at tech , the most of import affair is to adorn in Department of Education from other puerility to universities [ and to vest intemperately in ] R&D and unexampled innovations . . . We agreed in Finland that we are aiming to raise our R&D support to up to 4 % of our GDP by the year 2030 , which is actually a very ambitious finish . . . but I ’m an optimist and I want to think that technology can actually help us in solving the big issues of the future , like climate change , loss of biodiversity , pandemics and other vital problem . So we need expert result . We need instauration . And we need to check that that we also have the platforms and the will to promote building that . . .
How would you rate the European Commission ’s employment ?
In many ways , the post in Ukraine has deepened the family relationship between Europe and the States and also Great Britain . Europe as a whole has a great role in making certain that we have good rule internationally when it comes to big technical school and the development of AI . So we demand ethical rules that every country in the world should or have to follow . I can see a lot of peril if the European Commission or other legislative bodies do n’t work with the entrepreneur or private sector businesses because the development of new technologies is so fast , so cooperation is cardinal . And I would like to see more fundamental interaction and cooperation between secret and public .
We ’re already view so much good from AI when it comes to healthcare and pedagogy . We ’re also hearing more and more about risks to man . I know you ’ve been excited about AI for some time . Have you changed your view about its potential ?
Every engineering — everything newfangled — comes with risks . There is always a negative side to everything . But there is also a confirming side , and that ’s why I would like to see more and more fundamental interaction between the ones who are create the applied science and the legislative mass who are creating the rules for these technologies . . . so we can check that that there are more positive side than negative ones .
I love the work - life balance in Finland , and I also love that there ’s some antipathy to outsize wealthiness , the very extreme opposite word of which we see in the U.S. and particularly in the Bay Area , where people be given to valuate themselves ground on how much money they make . I do question if that is a gate factor to aspiration here or to appeal and retaining entrepreneurs .
It ’s very important that you have equilibrium in your life . If you only bring , you may go very hard for a certain period of time of time , but then you will fire out . I think we should encourage aspiration but also [ guarantee multitude ] have free time that they can drop with their family . In fact , we regenerate the parental leave organisation in Finland [ when ] I led the governance to ascertain more fourth dimension is given to male parent to expend with their small child , while also [ making it more potential ] for mothers to build up their career . I have n’t ever met a father who has said , ‘ I really regret spending time with my kid when he or she was small , ’ correct ? Nobody ever says that . That prison term away from work gives people perspective .
You ’re now a political consultant working for the Tony Blair Institute . What do you make of the characterization of TBI as the ‘ McKinsey to humankind leader ’ ?
Well , [ my longtime advisor Tuulia Pitkänen ] and I used to do this , work out in almost 40 countries globally , advise governments , advising heads of states on different matters . Of naturally , it vary from country to state whether it ’s to do with agriculture , engineering science or many other things , and my job [ at TBI ] is to [ likewise ] counsel heads of nation and also different government on certain issues . You lie with , when you are in that position of leaders , lead a country , nobody really understands that . you could not show it in a Christian Bible , you have to experience it . So leaders need that kind of interaction — to speak with people who really know the occupation and how intemperately it is and all the gene that you have to view doing that occupation . So that ’s my job there . But I also do many other thing like speak at dissimilar upshot and interacting with people . I still want to change the world . I have n’t lost my heat about the issues [ that compelled me to enter into ] politics in the first place . I still have all those passion , but now I have of course more exemption to do other things and I ’m open to them .
You were so popular as a prime rector . You ’re also still very too soon in your calling . Are you interested in give-up the ghost back into political relation at some point ?
I have n’t sound out that I would n’t ever go back . Of course , it ’s a theory . Someday , I might encounter that passion to pursue a political career once again . But for now , I ’m doing something else . And I believe you should always close some doorway to open new ones . Closing some doors , doing something else , find young paths has work well for me so far . So I never have had a five - class or 10 - year calling plan or any plan of the sort . I think opportunity come to you , and then you take them or not . you’re able to always take . But my advice is to not plan too much of your life because life is always a whodunit and it ’s always unknown and that ’s why it ’s so interesting .
